Is this available yet or is there an estimated release date ?

It's not available yet and no release date has been given. You probably won't be told when it's going to be released until they are very very close to submitting it to the app store. They are constantly working on it and have been making a lot of progress. They have been doing their best to get it polished to the minimum level that will get good reviews from new users on the app store.

In progress. Newer betas are increasingly polished, if that's any indication...

How long before somebody else releases something similar I wonder ? Skitter seems to have been working on this for ages.

I'm looking forward to the Skritter app

Basically we really underestimated the amount of development work it was going to take initially (the eternal bane of software development), and we've been adjusting to the increasing estimates ever since. At first Nick worked on it part time (working on the site the rest of the time) through last spring. That was taking too long, so last summer he started working on the app exclusively. In the fall he started trying to work extra hours, to really bunker down. Still taking too long! So in November we decided to go all in, bought me a Mac, Nick gave me a crash course on Objective-C, and now each of us have been working on it pretty much all the time, averaging 50-70 hour work weeks. All development powers are go, and also the testers have been super helpful putting in a lot of time finding the performance issues and bugs (of which there are still plenty that would not befit a release).

We're in the home stretch now, and we're sprinting toward the end. We promise it will totally be worth the wait!

The time will come for us to get our hands on it, just let the Skritter team continue on their mission to supply us with this jewel and keep up the patience.

I too am looking forward to it!

@thinbungee

If you're aware of a superior offering, I'd suggest using it. I think the closest approximation is Pleco's Flashcard plugin plus their Handwriting Plguin, and it very rough if handwriting tests with SRS are your main goal.

If you think there is a lot of money to be made in Chinese handwriting tests and that there is a better, faster path to achieving that, I'd also suggest investing your money wisely! I personally am skeptical that it would be really so easy to *leapfrog* what Skritter offers in either their web service or pending iOS app, let alone it being financially rewarding in the short or medium term.

I *guess* a large reason for the team's deliberate pace of development has to do with Apple's policies about publishing and app updates, as well as the high need to make the initial release capable of receiving consistently high user ratings. A rushed beta front end that is crash prone and lacks obvious features won't do that.

@Scott Your hard work is appreciated. Keep it up

I think this is going to be a great application. However, did you do a poll to see how many of your users will require/use it? For me myself, I cannot afford a new iphone and mainly study at home where I use a wacom and the site (to create a pen feel). If you are on the home straight now then that is great but I think it has meant other elements of the site have been neglected a bit. E.g. updating sample sentences for lower levels, producing better newsletters (which have been very short of late). Having said that I realise your resources are limited and this site is amazing, so best of luck finishing it off!

I can't wait for the app! I would really love to skritter on my iphone. Where I live, the iphone is really expensive - RM2000 (that's Malaysian Ringgit). Plus we need to sign up for a contractual 24 month data plan when we buy the phone. But having said, I'd still buy an iPhone - I just won't know what I'll do without it! So I really hope to skritter on it soon.

mratranslate, when we did a poll, 49% of existing Skritter users had an iOS device (and we first asked that 1.5 years ago). I think it would be higher now, and I know a ton of people who would be Skritter users if it ran really well on a mobile device, and some who will buy an iPod Touch just to use it.

@Redboxnic Keep in mind that if Skritter on iOS is your main attraction, you could achieve the same experience for cheaper with a newer iPod Touch (or buying a used iPad). I'm all for the iPhone, but it certainly is overkill if you *just* want to Skritter on the go!

I´m not an Apple enthusiast, but most probably buy some secondhand I-Device for Skritter. Waiting....

@StEskil
I agree, I always thought I'd get an android phone when my old one died, but instead got an iPhone and I don't think I'm alone in getting a second hand one for the sake of Skritter!


I have also realised that Skritter will benefit from the inevitable huge interest via the app, and I'm positive that the (awesome) Skritter guys will pass this on to all of us. That's why I'm happy to be patient, as what Scott said earlier makes sense - the better the first impressions for all those new users, the more Skritter (and therefore we) benefit.

I hate to sound so glum, but gee wiz--this is taking forever.

Is this still your policy:
"We have a very simple company philosophy: keep costs low, listen to customers, and release early and often."

Some are probably really starting to wonder if they need the app at all if time goes on and on and we live without it. Could you maybe just call the thing "BetaBetaSkritterApp" or something and put out there for us? I mean...we're dyin' out here. Please...help...release...soon. Thanks.

And @Catherine: Patient? Really?

I dont agree with you Exhausted, I think the app can become a really useful study tool and a good thing for this community. Not only will you be able to study words on the go but hopefully also be able to save words to your study lists whenever you come across them.

Btw, I got a second hand Ipod touch very cheap here in China and I just want to recommend it to anyone who is looking to use it with the Skritter app!

@exhausted - release early and often != release before its ready

They're working hard, but they get one shot at a first impression for the app. It'll be worth the wait I am certain. Also, costs are still pretty low, so, you know...and they have been listening (or they wouldn't be pushing so hard to get the app done)

Compared to duke nukes forever or diablo 3 this wait is nothing :p

Well, I know it WILL BE great--but I might be dead and gone by then. For nwo, I'm still checking back here for months and months and maybe a year. This just isn't how things are done anymore--in 2012. First impressions aren't what they used to be. And anyway, the flash app or the demo is the first impression. Think of all the people-hours we've lost waiting for perfection. I mean, my kids are growing up while I waiting for this thing.

Nowadays, we (developers) really do need to release "early and often"--especially if we say we will. If people can understand we need to wait, then we're grown up enough to understand "alpha" or "beta" or "consumer preview." Even Microsoft does this with their core product: Windows. Just to let us see it.

Perfection is the enemy of the good. Please, please release something and call it beta. Call it something else altogether--a codename--if you like. Your reputation is not as important as you think it is--(and it's suffering anyway). Please.

@exhausted: Actually first impressions are FAR more important now. In the 90's when you walk into a computer store there were maybe 50 different boxed products on the shelves, you picked one without having any real idea if it was any good, paid and went home. You paid before you'd even tried it. The first impression could be horrible but by that stage they already had your money.

Now there are a million iPhone apps, they all have ratings/reviews (and any that don't are clearly crap so most people I know won't even download anything that hasn't been reviewed). And then there is the problem of finding the app - how will a random user even see it? Unless they're in the know and specifically searching for it, the only real chance is just after release while its in the whats new section and shows up in blog "skritter app released" posts. After that first month when its dropped off apple whats new section, and the blog posts about it have disappeared into the archives getting your app seen is virtually impossible.

The first month is vitally important if you want new users to find your app. Without a good first impression you'll get a load of 1 star reviews, once its rated 2 stars anyone else who finds it won't even take it seriously and will ignore it.

The skritter team are not after pure perfection. This week alone the app has crashed three times on me. It also quite regularly gets into a state where when drawing a character it lets you draw whatever you want and stops responding to all input and you have to kill it from the multitasking bar to fix it. It's stopped syncing to the site even though it was telling me it was. And I've also had the app add every single character from a new list to my queue at once with no way for me to remove them. Suddenly having 60 completely new characters in your queue really screws things up. In the end I had to manually ban each one and later I have to go back to the website and slowly un-ban them one by one.

Now I'm heavily invested, and very tech savy so I don't mind it crashing, or totally screwing up my queue but will a new noobie user sign up to skritter if they test an app that does this to them? Will they give a review "it crashs all the time, breaks my queue and stops responding ... but 5 stars for effort"? Hellll's noooo! It'll get 1 stared to hell and never be heard from again.

When it works its fricken fantastic, best app I have - I'm just trying to point out there are very real reasons it hasn't been on the app store for the last few months. Its very frustrating to wait, and the app looks brilliant in screenshots, but trust me they're doing the right thing by fixing this stuff before releasing it.

Agreed with kaysik.

Point 1: Yes, as far as general apps are concerned, early reviews are everything. But, Skritter is for a special audience. People don't just casually say, "I think I'll learn Mandarin today." And if they do, they'll change their mind and go for Portugese tomorrow. I suggest there will be more long term benefit in appealing to the base than to everyone--unless this is a McDonald's-type endeavor. The base wants Skritter now, yesterday.

Point 2: The app crashed only three times in a week? Great. Good enough for me. Take my money and let me in!

Point 3: Kaysik and IceBear are tech savvy? Hey, me too! Probably most folks here are either techie enough or desparate enough with a techie nephew to help get them through a few issues if necessary.

Point 4: The Econonmy. This is also holding me up from buying an iPad/touch/phone and, more importantly, from joining Skritter. That's right, I'm not even a customer. So you see, Skritter is loosing revenue over this. Not theoretical future review, real, actual money. (Once again, I'd gladly pay for a once-a-day crashing app...if I can learn some Mandarin.)

Point 5: @Kaysik. Your whole argument is invalidated by the fact that you continue to use the beta test app. You have EXACTLY made my whole argument in acknowledging you'd rather use it as-is than not at all. Icebear, are you a beta tester, too. :)

Point 7: Skitter policy: 'Release early and often.' There's a reason this is on the site. That reason is still as good as ever. I'm calling Skritter devs out on this: It's your own policy.

I know I sound argumentative, but I'm here because I want to be a customer and I'm trying to point out that this situation is not as business-wise as you think nor does it "do greater good" by holding us all up. When it comes down to it, this is America and if people with money want something, you gotta give it to them. As a Secretary once said (sorta), "You go to AppStore with the Skritter you have, not the Skritter you want.'

I know I'm outnumbered and many here are kind and supportive people. I think I am as well. I just don't think we always need patience. Sometimes you gotta put a fire under someone, make some good points and be more proactive than patient to get things done--or cause things to get done.

So let's get going Skritter devs. I see all supporters are here en masse, but where are the charcoal-drawing avatars when we want to hear from them? Show your faces. Respond on these matters. Or wait, better yet, agree to open up the beta test to all current subscribers. I'd sign up in 2 seconds flat.

Exhausted, yes, we love to release early and often. But on the App Store, because the initial marketing window is so short, that is not possible if you are trying to using it for marketing, which we are, otherwise we could never afford to spend this much time on a native iOS app. It frustrates us too!

We appreciate the alternative viewpoint, but you cannot set any more fire under us than we're already setting under ourselves. We burn everything for this. We would love to have every current user beta testing until we launch, but Apple doesn't let us have more than 100 device slots per year, and we've already apportioned them.

The answer to the question of where we're at on this thread is--working hard on finishing the app, all day every day.

Thank you Nick for your response. I certainly can understand about the iTunes device limits. Also, I get that you are at the mercy of the rating system--and the way that many rely on it. I guess we only disagree on what would happen if Skritter in its current state were released.

I happen to think that if it were clearly labeled that it's a much-requested, early, early version one--perhaps with links to these forums as evidence--it would get four stars. Even if I'm wrong and it gets only one or two, probably all current customers would buy in, some new ones (like me) and even some very obviously illiterate whiners who couldn't read the "purchasing guidance" that I suggest be included in the description.

Well, I've made my points and you've made yours, so I should really let you get back to work. Thanks for doing this app. I have no doubts that it will be good--great. (I'm sure it's already good.) I'll thank you again by buying four iOS apps/subscriptions as soon as you let me. :)

[Isn't it a little bit funny that the lone "angry" person is upset only because he wants what you're got and can't have it yet? Well, maybe it's not exactly funny, but neither am I actually angry.]

Thanks all. Happy Skrittering. :)

@Exhausted The discussion in the following thread may be of interest to you, if you are gungho about early adoption...
http://www.skritter.com/forum/topic?id=170048419&comments=5

I've been reading the threads with interest, and feel compelled to offer my two cents.

I joined Skritter back in 2010, when it was still a happy, lively community full of ideas of how to improve the website. I first heard of the plan for the iPhone app in November 2010, which is a moment I remember vividly because at the time I was commuting for over two hours a day, with two train trips (plus an extra one on Fridays) and two metro trips each way. In addition I would often have two extra hours available during the day perfect for Skrittering, which meant potentially 4 hours a day not including weekends and holidays during a whole year. I thought that waiting a couple of months for it to be developed would really be worth it.

In the time since then, I've completed over half my Bachelor's degree and left behind my teenage years (on the subject of growing older while we wait). I graduate in a month's time, which means that my time of being able to dedicate myself fully to the joy of learning is almost up and I am currently looking for a full-time job, leaving me a lot less time to Skritter.

For me, the question of reviews and Apple restrictions distracts from the main issue: this is a problem of expectations. Of course there is a lot of work involved in developing, and we're well aware that the team is working its absolute hardest. But why put even more pressure on yourself to develop the app quickly by setting false expectations (you don't need to set a date to make people feel deceived, believe me), by promoting a teaser page, by dedicating the blog almost exclusively to how great the app is? Why always say "soon", which to me suggests next month, instead of something like "in 3 years' time, unless we manage before for some reason" (which would be a satisfactory answer for me)? Why make yourselves have to waste time answering the same question over and over again in the forum, where the tone seems to become increasingly bitter as beta testers and unsatisfied customers endlessly have a go at each other?

My iPhone was stolen last month, which means that I now have no hope of experiencing the app in the near future (I don't have the money to invest in a new one). My progress has flatlined since a long time, mainly as a result of demotivation (who wants to Skritter at midnight knowing they have to be up in six hours for class?) and disillusionment. I acknowledge now that my Skritter payments are more like a donation towards a tool that inspired me so much at the beginning.

Sorry for the long post, and I won't bother with demands for compensation or anything. I just wish you had never mentioned the app in the first place so that I could have continued enjoying the web version without experiencing such prolonged frustration...

missb, I'm really sorry to have frustrated you so much. None of us thought the app would take anywhere near this long, either. Hofstadter's Law got us big time.

One purpose of talking about the app while we were working on it was to show people that we weren't dead, since there aren't many other site updates while the app is in development. Another purpose was to get people interested in the app so that when we do launch it, there'll be a bigger initial audience--important in the App Store.

Do you have a release window, like summer or fall 2012? I'll probably buy the iphone 5 when it is released in october, so I can wait. A general idea when the app could be released would be good though.

dc1, it's going to depend on what kind of changes Apple asks from us. We hope they'll let us through quickly, but we might have to do some revamping.

Valid question. Why not go to someone that does know what they are doing? Why not go to the numerous other possibilities? Why not use one of the other apps?

Oh, wait! There are no other options. These guys are busy with innovation. It takes time. Sure there are thousands of iOS programmers out there. How many of them are developing a similar app? None that I know of. These guys are. If that means they must master iOS programming first. by all means! At least we are going to get something that doesn't exist at the moment!

What is the purpose of your question malaili2? What do you think you are going to achieve? It is obvious they cant work harder. So trying to get them to that cant be the goal. Hmmm that leaves the only other reason. You are throwing a tantrum. Grow up.