I've recently done the HSK 2 test and I am using the Skritter HSK 3 list before I try a specimen test to see how hard it is. I see that many of the characters in the list have more than one reading, e.g 啊 with four possible tones, 为 with two tones, same with 难 and 教.

Is it really the case that I need all these different readings/meanings for HSK 3, or is it just the way Skritter has its word list and it comes out the same whatever list you are using?

Should I be basing my learning on a list from elsewhere?

TIA

Margaret

The readings and definitions are not list-specific. It's up to you how many of the readings, tones, and definitions you want to learn--often all but the first are rarer and can be skipped until you run into them in other contexts, but sometimes the tone differences are pretty important. Usually the word that the character is in will clarify.

If you take the HSK 3, you will not be tested on individual characters.

Instead, you will:

1) Listen to short recorded dialogues;
2) Read short paragraphs;
3) Rearrange individual characters into coherent sentences

So there are no questions like "What are the two tones of 为?". Or "What are the multiple definitions of 志?"

Instead, during the short recorded dialogues, they may say 为 in words that use both tones. So you should be familiar with what those tones are. And perhaps they will use 志 in different words like 杂志 (magazine) and 志愿者 (volunteer). So you should be familiar with those definitions. Because of this, I think your time is better spent trying to memorize words and not individual characters.

I hope that answers your question.

Thanks, Nick. I was afraid that was the case. It has been worrying me when using lists from books when I saw there was more material there than was relevant.

atdlouis, thanks too - there is a list of words (not characters) intended for the test. It is these words I'm talking about. But some of those words consist of one character. I want to learn the words, obviously with the help of putting them in sentences, before I do a sample test to see how hard HSK 3 is. I know what the test consists of and how little writing I have to do, that there's no pinyin any longer. (I have the Chinese practice book for the test but it doesn't contain the word list, and if it's like the HSK 2 book it will test more vocabulary than the 600 official words).

Do you know that they may use the two tones of 为 in the test？

Basically I want to make my own list, with sentences, and I was hoping the Skritter list would save me time, but I think I need to start with the dictionary, with easier sentences than the Skritter ones. I find I am listing a lot of extraneous material.

Does anyone know a more straightforward HSK 3 list? Obviously the original list was Chinese - presumably without pinyin - but was that a list of single characters, hence the problem? I understood the HSK lists were words, not characters.

Hi Zeppa,
I'm not totally familiar with HSK 3, but I would guess that they will focus on 为 as a grammatical pattern.

为 (wèi): for
often used in the sense of doing something for someone, or feeling a certain way about someone.
ex.
我为妈妈买了一件衣服
(I bought a piece of clothing for my mother)

我为你骄傲
(I'm proud of you)

It will also likely appear as 为了(wèl le): in order to, for the purpose of

ex.
为了大家的安全，请系好安全带
(for everyone's safety, please fasten your seat belt)

为了钱，我要找新的工作
(I want to find a new job for the money)

为了身体健康，你应该抽烟。
(For your own health, you shouldn't smoke)

The other 为(wéi) has a tone of meanings, from to do, to become, to be etc. It also servers to make things passive, or as a suffix. This 为 was used in classical texts (hence the plethora of meanings) and takes some practice to get used to.

I would recommend checking out Nciku's large list of examples to see the different between the two different pronunciations:

http://www.nciku.com/search/cc/detail/%E4%B8%BA/7440

Finally, atdlouis said it right. These tests are going to be taking vocabulary and giving them context. While Skritter is going to help increase your reading of individual characters, I would certainly check out some of the HSK study books available to bring these individual characters to life.

Be sure to let us know how the test goes, and best of luck!

Twas I that typed out the 6 HSK lists from the official books and uploaded them into Skritter. They are all 1,2,3 or 4 character words.
Skritter uses it's own 'dictionary' to display the tones, meanings and sentences. If you want the original list (it's just a word list), download HSK3 from Skritter and delete the pinyin and meaning that Skritter gives you.

In my experience they are testing your general level and not out to hammer you on a technicality - main thing is to be familiar with the words in general.

Thanks also to SkritterJake and Neil. Neil, what books are those? I havea series called New HSK, but it has only ten tests and a CD, no list. But I will do what you say and base my list on the Mandarin, not the Skritter explanations.

SkritterJake and atdlouis, I didn't explain what I am doing in full. On the one hand I am using a book in a weekly class (Conversational Chinese German version, about to start 2nd volume), but the exercises are pretty useless to incomprehensible. I am working through the end of a book by Elizabeth Scurfield (older version of Complete Mandarin) - her books aren't included in the Skritter lists but they are very good - and want to work through at least parts of the two Routledge grammar exercise books. So generally my Chinese is improving, with words. But I think it's essential to use a flashcard system. When I first learnt from 1969 to 1975, I had my own flashcard system with a kind of SRS. Now I have started with Skritter to revise, I am very impressed by the software systems, Skritter above all but also Anki and Pleco. However, I am beginning to find my use of Skritter a bit mechanical. I understand what you say about learning words and patterns - I am doing that anyway. But I am creating my own flashcards on paper again, and I thought I would do the 600 HSK 3 words to start. I will have plenty of overlapping cards with words in them and various tones - if needed. But I obviously can't use the Skritter translations as a starter. I just want to make a sensible straightforward set of HSK cards as part of my resources.

I don't even know if I'll do the HSK 3 yet. It has to be useful learning. With HSK 2, I found the test book quite useful, but I feel there is a growing split between what I am learning and what is actually tested and the vocabulary list itself. The HSK 2 test was a bit like an IQ test anyway - they do everything to make them easy to mark and throw a few things in to confuse you. We weren't given any time at all to copy the reading part answers onto the form, but I found I had to work out the sets of five sentences on paper first. Anyway, I got 95%, but it isn't a very hard exam.

Thanks particularly to Nick and Neil for answering the question.

Margaret

Well, I've been continuing from 241 on in the HSK 3 list and there are really fewer problematic cards than I remembered. I take the character and pinyin from Skritter and then also the English meaning, unless it consists of many parts, in which case I check the dictionaries. I also check on Pleco and add the traditional characters to the simple ones where applicable. I'm learning the simplified ones but I want to learn the traditional ones too.

I am wondering about the tones on 完成 - wancheng. The dictionaries have two second tones, but the Skritter list gives a fourth and a second. Is that a slip?

Margaret

Are you sure? It looks like wan2cheng2 in our database to me.

Sorry Nick, you're right - I don't know what went wrong there, but I copied it out with a query - I must have made a mistake.

Margaret

I'm also prepping for HSK3. If you want a good sense of how the test works, including the vocabulary, get yourself a copy of the syllabus at your local Xinhua Shudian. Assuming you're in China of course. The ISBN is 978-7-100-06881-9.

Keeping track of multiple tones is no problem here on Skritter; just add some notes to your dictionary entry.

Well, I am really just trying to get some flashcards in order after a break of 35 years. Since I jumped into the middle of a course, I don't have the luxury of gradually building up from scratch but have to cover 17 lessons the class already studied. I do want to take the HSK 3 test but how soon depends on how I feel after I try a test. Our Chinese teacher got us the first three books of Simulated Tests of the New HSK, with an MP3 CD. They seem perfectly adequate, at least with HSK 2 no problem. But they don't actually list the vocab, although they say 'fully cover the vocabulary and grammar points prescribed by the outline of the new HSK', but the tests actually include lots of vocabulary that wasn't in the list and the actual exam was much easier.

Thanks very much for the reference to the syllabus. I am in Germany but I see I can get it from a Chinese bookseller in Switzerland (www.chinabooks.ch). They have some kind of establishments in Germany and Austria too.

I'm not sure about what my dictionary entry is and how I add notes to it. I am constantly finding new features of Skritter, although I thought I read up about it when I started.

Course Books are downloadable here...

http://www.confuciusinstitute.qut.edu.au/study/proficiency.jsp

Nick can we put a link to the books (or host it yourself?)in the hsk list descriptions? Quite a few people have asked for it on the forums here.

为了身体健康，你应该抽烟。

Thanks very much, Neil. You mean the guidelines, not the course books, do you? From p. 37 on there is a list of the HSK 3 vocabulary, just what I wanted. I'm sure they're available elsewhere, but not reading much Chinese, I missed them.

Don't understand the call to stop smoking.

Margaret

And there are also pages showing the structures you are expected to know, which is very useful.

The list in the HSK3 guideline does contain the two tones of 为 and 教.
365 认为 [rènwéi] , 446 为 [wèi], 447 为了[wèile], 448 为什么 [wèi shénme].
211 教 [jiāo], 215 教室 [jiàoshì].

@孟志书 是戒烟吧？为了健康还抽烟？

Yes, thanks, that was just an example and now I have the list I know how to make my own cards. Wei comes up in isolation and also in combination. 446 with fourth tone is simpler for me than the way the Skritter list gives more than one option. The HSK guideline gives the different tones in compounds, which makes more sense.
Hope I've made myself clear!

@pts, one of SkritterJake's example sentences has a typo. It amused me, because I could see making this statement at a Chinese dinner around drunk people and having them agree with me. Then after I admit it's an error on my part having them still adamantly defend it.

Senseless random humor on my part haha

@孟志书 So it originates from an earlier post. Sorry, I missed that part.

@nick "often all but the first are rarer and can be skipped until you run into them in other contexts"

I just found this thread while looking for something else, and noticed this interesting comment. Nick, could you please clarify if you mean that in Skritter the definitions used are generally ordered by frequency (i.e. first definition is the most common). That would help a lot when confronted with a new character that I'm having trouble remembering due to multiple definitions...

I was talking mostly about when there are multiple readings. The first reading, and the definitions that go with it, are usually the most common.

When there are multiple definitions for a normal character, we try to order the definitions by importance, but many of those definitions are still frequent enough that they really can't be skipped, unfortunately.

Thanks. I understand that in the long run having some grasp of all the definitions is ideal, but at least it helps in the short run when only one or two definitions can be internalized (or related to the words you're learning that include that character).